Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  13

  MY GOSPEL

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  has anyone ever read the new testament- critically- and not theologically?

  by theologically i mean not reading the bible with the intention of understanding the nature of god and religious truth.

  but instead, reading the bible by analyzing only the facts of what is written, in an unbiased frame of mind to pull out what is actually happening in the written stories.. first of all, if you were to read the nt in chronological order, paul’s 7 authentic letters would come before the gospels of matthew, mark, luke, and john.

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  Sea Breeze

  As you continue to read critically, you start noticing that Paul was not preaching the same Gospel that Jesus preached. He always refers to the message he preaches as; MY GOSPEL. In fact Paul’s Gospel does not reflect the Gospel that the 12 apostles preached after the death of their Teacher-Jesus.

  That isn't true. Paul uses the term "good news of" (gospel of) in a variety of ways just as the other writers did.
  
  

  Gospel of Jesus Christ (or Christ ) – 12 times

  Gospel of God – 7 times

  Gospel of the kingdom – 4 times

  Gospel of peace – 2 times

  Gospel of the grace of God – 1 time

  Gospel of your salvation – 1 time

  Gospel of the uncircumcision – 1 time

  Gospel of the circumcision – 1 time

  Gospel of his Son – 1 time

  ​

  The Watchtower focuses their entire message on the “good news of the kingdom”. Of course the “kingdom”, as explained by the Watchtower is really just another name for themselves (the visible part therof) in their way of thinking. It is repeated so often in Jehovah’s Witness circles that many will go to the extent and say that the bible is a book of government….. which they are quick to point out refers to their own ecclesiastical authority in modern times.
  
  However, an examination of the term “good news of ____” (or gospel of ____) reveals that by far it is the good news of Jesus that is most frequently referred to in the New Testament. In fact, out of the thirty times it occurs, only four of the occurrences are “gospel of the kingdom”.
  
  Jesus was sent to the Jews only and he presented himself as their King. He was the good news of the kingdom. Of course the Jews rejected this good news and so the Gentiles were offered it as well shortly after Jesus was resurrected. Because the Gentiles had no legal contract with God like the nation of Israel did, the "good news" took on an expanded scope which included salvation for the gentiles.
  
  Peter, James and John, the three most influential apostles were in agreement with Paul's message ...as Galatians 2 verifies:
  
  Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. 3But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: 4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. 6But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
  
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  87

  From the WTBS to... CHURCHS???

  by DoubtingThomas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why?????

  ?.

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  Sea Breeze

  Of course Truth matters. Truth is a person: Jesus said, "I AM the way, the TRUTH, and the life". But, the WT claims truth is their organization. Looks like a decision has to made here because both cannot be true.
  
  Over and over the bible warns not to put trust in mortal men:
  
  

  Psalm 146:3

  Do not trust in princes,

  In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.

  Jeremiah 17:5

  Thus says the Lord, “Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind"

  Isaiah 2:22

  Stop regarding man, whose breath of life is in his nostrils; For why should he be esteemed?

  If not men, then who?

  God, who at various times and in diverse ways spoke long ago to the fathers through the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things - Heb. 1:1
  
  As JW's, we rebelled against the direction of scripture. We put our trust in men and we sought Jehovah instead of Jesus. When it came to obeying Jesus in regards to his command to receive a New Covenant and get our sins forgiven, we publicly rejected it, like the rebels that we were.
  
  How much more severe a punishment do you suppose he deserves, who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded the blood of the covenant ... to be a common thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? ... 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. - Heb. 10:29-31

  There are many good churches that lead people to Jesus. You should pick out a non-denomination church and check it out sometime. Jesus said that where two or more are gathered together, he would be there. People go to church to meet up with Jesus, not to pretend that they alone have the truth or pretend they are righteous. So, now you know, "WHY"???
  
  You can usually meet Jesus on Sunday mornings at a gathering near where you live. He'll be waiting for you there.
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  16

  What's the job of an elder?

  by asp59 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  with the current discussion if someone in his twenties can be elder or not.

  i'm interested in what a elder in jw land really do.

  all speeches already come in video format from headquarters.

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  Sea Breeze

  What Ding said. They are primarily there to weaponize your family against you should you ever want to dissent.
• 
  87

  From the WTBS to... CHURCHS???

  by DoubtingThomas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why?????

  ?.

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  Sea Breeze

  Because we realized that the entire purpose of the WT is to get people to reject the New Covenant for forgiveness of sins.

  Matthew 26:27-28

  27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

  28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

  Understand now?

  
  Christianity is about relationship instead of religion.... a relationship with Jesus. Jesus said, "Come to Me (not Jehovah) and I will give you rest for your souls"
  
  This is impossible at the KH
  
  Galatians 1: 8 & 9 is another reason. The WT message of a two group salvation (one with the NC and one without it was not taught by the apostles.
  
  JW's are clearly cursed according to this scripture.
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  141

  My Prediction Regarding New Space Telescope That Will See Back to 100 Million Years From the Big Bang

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a new space telescope launched a few days age that will supposedly be able to see to within 100 million years of the big bang.

  wow... only 100 million years from the big bang.

  that is pretty early given the 12 billion year age of the universe assigned by scholars who adhere to naturalism.

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  Sea Breeze

  Waton: "nothing can ruin your reputation like a false prophecy, supporting a theory with yet non existing falsifications."
  
  That made me think of other similarities between the WT and BB scientists on the age of the universe: They both continually find "new light". In the case of the latter, the universe gets older and older when their theory gets in trouble.
  
  

  1. Hubble clocked a universe expansion rate of 500 kilometers per second per megaparsec, a constant that now bears his name. Hubble’s work in 1929 pegged the universe at expanding in such a way that it should be roughly 2 billion years old.

  2. This changed to at least 7 billion years old in 1990

  3. An age of 13.8 billion years was trotted out for public consumption in 2003

  4. Recently, astronomers used the cluster Abell 370, which is 6 billion light years away and whose core contains the mass of several hundred galaxies, to magnify light from a galaxy behind the cluster that is 15.5 billion light years distant.

  This last one is the event that I mentioned earlier where the Hawaii telescope (I have been to this one myself) found a galaxy in the "dark age" of the universe where is wasn't supposed to be.
  
  Just like the WT, when predictions don't work - it's not a falsification of the theory, they say it is clarification, refinement etc. In other words, "the light gets brighter and brighter".
  
  How old will the universe be once WST finds more things that are not as they "should" be?

  Another safe prediction is that BB scientists will claim that stars formed far earlier than previously thought and the universe is much older that previously assumed.
  
  Same schtick, different play.

  
• 
  141

  My Prediction Regarding New Space Telescope That Will See Back to 100 Million Years From the Big Bang

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a new space telescope launched a few days age that will supposedly be able to see to within 100 million years of the big bang.

  wow... only 100 million years from the big bang.

  that is pretty early given the 12 billion year age of the universe assigned by scholars who adhere to naturalism.

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  Sea Breeze

  "You need to understand why redshift is happening, then you realize quickly the Universe wasn’t made fully formed"
  

  So, can you "quickly"explain why you believe that red-shift proves the universe wasn't created?

  "However as has been proven already, the composition of these systems will be completely different."
  
  Not proven according to this NASA article:

  A team of European researchers, led by Rachana Bhatawdekar of ESA (the European Space Agency), set out to study the first generation of stars in the early universe. Known as Population III stars, these stars were forged from the primordial material that emerged from the big bang. Population III stars must have been made solely out of hydrogen, helium and lithium, the only elements that existed before processes in the cores of these stars could create heavier elements, such as oxygen, nitrogen, carbon and iron.

  Bhatawdekar and her team probed the early universe from about 500 million to 1 billion years after the big bang by studying the cluster MACS J0416 and its parallel field with the Hubble Space Telescope (with supporting data from NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope and the ground-based Very Large Telescope of the European Southern Observatory). "We found no evidence of these first-generation Population III stars in this cosmic time interval," said Bhatawdekar of the new results.
  
  "These results have profound astrophysical consequences as they show that galaxies must have formed much earlier than we thought," said Bhatawdekar.
  
  (Or maybe from the beginning)

  The Big Bang theory requires that stars, quasars and galaxies in the early universe be “primitive”, meaning metal-free. Because it requires many generations of supernovae to build up metal content in stars. That takes time.... a lot of it.

  This is one of the main things the WST is designed to look for - stars with no metal content or Population III stars as they are called. These are supposed to be first generation stars made of mostly only helium and hydrogen. About two thirds of the elements on the periodic table were not present after the supposed Big Bang event, but are alleged to have formed after stars burn out, then supernova, then re-assimilate millions of years again later, and so on.
  
  I predict that Webb will find "ordinary" stars and galaxies just as Hubble did. Stay tuned.
  
  
  Even more interesting is the fact that we may now already have evidence that my prediction is true with findings out of Hawaii where ordinary galaxies were found in what the Big Bang expected to be the “dark age” of evolution of the universe due to a somewhat unique gravitational lens effect.
  
  Wow, imagine that.... ordinary galaxies in the dark age of the "evolution" of the universe.
  
  Here's a list of just the top 30 problems with the BB Theory
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  7

  I was scrolling on my Google news feed and this came up

  by nowwhat? in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/multiple-nations-issue-joint-statement-calling-for-an-end-to-the-persecution-of-jehovahs-witnesses/.

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  Sea Breeze

  Here's some interesting stats on Christians for one year....
  
  

  1 in 9 Christians worldwide experience high levels of persecution

  There is a 14% rise in the number of Christians in the top 50 countries on the 2019 World Watch List (WWL) who experience high levels of persecution. (from the 2018 reporting period to 2019’s)

  4,136 Christians killed for faith-related reasons in the top 50 WWL countries.

  2,625 Christians detained without trial, arrested, sentenced and imprisoned in the top 50 WWL countries.

  1,266 churches or Christian buildings attacked in the top 50 WWL countries.

  In seven of the countries in the World Watch List’s top 10, the primary cause of persecution is Islamic oppression.

  11 countries scoring in the “extreme” level for their persecution of Christians. Five years ago, North Korea was the only one.

  18 Consecutive years North Korea has ranked No. 1 as the world’s most dangerous place for Christians.
  
  Persecution by the Numbers
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  18

  Article to discuss or argue over: Buddha, Abraham, Jesus and Muhammed: Larger-than-life historic figures or largely legends?

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've posted a link to an article that contains important food for thought.

  as we search for information to free our minds and hearts of cult-like thinking which entails being able to critically think, we need to ponder research that is available to help us to make important decisions.

  we need to allow ourselves to consider other possibilities, something that jw’s are discouraged from doing.

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  Sea Breeze

  The Nazareth Inscription is almost certainly authentic, and it is a rump version of an imperial rescript. It was also almost certainly issued by the Emperor Claudius and most likely in 41 AD when the Jews were in turmoil and right after he had given Judah and Samaria to King Herod Agrippa I. The text of the Nazareth Inscription fits both the vocabulary, style and structure of other known rescripts of Claudius.

  As was seen above, Agrippa I was a governmental official in the city of Tiberias in the Galilee when both John the Baptist and Jesus Christ were ministering in Israel. Agrippa’s uncle Herod Antipas certainly knew that Jesus was a Galilean from Nazareth, [Luke 23:5-7] and King Agrippa I also must have known this.

  The close connection between the name of Jesus and the city of Nazareth is important for determining the place where the Nazareth Edict was posted. A careful look at the New Testament reveals that the followers of Jesus were at first not called Christians but rather “Nazarenes.” The Apostle Paul when he appeared before the Roman Governor Felix was accused by his Jewish enemies of being: “…a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes.” [Acts 24:5 NASV]

  It is also very clear in the New Testament that Jesus during his ministry was primarily called “Jesus of Nazareth.” There are many references in the New Testament to “Jesus of Nazareth” or “Jesus the Nazarene.” These references are made by both His followers and His enemies. Everyone who had heard of Jesus knew that he was from Nazareth. The titulus, which Pilate placed over the head of Jesus on the cross, read “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews.” [John 19:19] When Peter appeared before the High Priest and the Sanhedrin in Acts 4:10, he spoke of: “Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead.”

  Unquestionably, King Herod Agrippa I, who was related to the family of the high priests, would have known that Jesus was from the city of Nazareth in Galilee, and that his Disciples were claiming that he had been resurrected. That King Agrippa I was well acquainted with Christianity can also be seen in his behavior after Claudius added Judea to his kingdom in 41 AD. As soon as he returned from Rome in 41 AD to claim Judea, one of the first things that King Agrippa I did was to persecute Christians in the city of Jerusalem, his new capital.

  It is nearly certain that it was King Herod Agrippa I who wrote the letter of inquiry to the Emperor Claudius about how to deal with the new “sect” of Jesus the Nazarene. It is also nearly certain that it was in response to Agrippa’s letter of inquiry that Claudius wrote an imperial rescript forbidding the removal of bodies from tombs in order to counter the Christian doctrine that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead.

  It is also nearly certain that it was King Herod Agrippa I who, through his influence on Claudius, had the Nazareth Inscription posted in Nazareth, the home city of the “sect of the Nazarenes.” As was noted above, King Herod Agrippa I may have even used the Nazareth Inscription as imperial authorization for the persecution of Christians and the execution of James the brother of John, see Acts.12:1-3.

  The best date for the posting of the Nazareth Inscription is 41 AD. In 41 AD Claudius became emperor and immediately had to deal with a developing revolt among the Jews, both those who were living in Israel and also those living in the city of Alexandria. As was related above, just before his assassination, Caligula had driven the Jews to the brink of revolt by ordering Roman officials to set up his image in the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. To deal with this explosive situation in 41 AD, Claudius almost certainly turned to his friend Agrippa I for advice and information.

  Since Agrippa I is known to have hated Nazarene Christians and since he also knew, as the Book of Acts records, that Christians were causing an uproar in Jerusalem at the very time when he became king of Judea in 41 AD, it seems nearly certain that it was at this same time that Agrippa I wrote his letter of inquiry to Claudius, and Claudius consequently wrote his rescript letter threatening Christians with death for the removal of bodies from tombs. With Agrippa I’s intimate knowledge of Christ and Christianity, it was almost certainly he who selected Nazareth as the site for the posting of the Nazareth Inscription.

  The question that now needs to be answered is: Does the Nazareth Inscription prove the resurrection of Christ. The answer to that question is no. But what it does prove is that the story of the resurrection of Christ was already well known very early, even to the Emperor Claudius in ca. 41 A.D. This fact clearly proves that the story of the resurrection of Christ was widely known almost immediately after His crucifixion. In other words, the story of the resurrection of Christ must have been a story that was circulated by his Apostles themselves, and it was not a later invention by gentile Christians of the post-apostolic period, as a few modern scholars in the past have argued.

  The Nazareth Inscription does force modern scholars into making a choice of either believing in the resurrection of Christ or of believing that His disciples stole His body from His tomb in order to perpetrate a great religious fraud. As is true for philosophy, science, and religion; belief is always the key issue.

  View Dr. Billington's entire article via PDF here: The Nazareth Inscription
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  18

  Article to discuss or argue over: Buddha, Abraham, Jesus and Muhammed: Larger-than-life historic figures or largely legends?

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've posted a link to an article that contains important food for thought.

  as we search for information to free our minds and hearts of cult-like thinking which entails being able to critically think, we need to ponder research that is available to help us to make important decisions.

  we need to allow ourselves to consider other possibilities, something that jw’s are discouraged from doing.

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  Sea Breeze

  No takers in trying to explain away the minimum facts surrounding the resurrection?
  
  C'mon Barbara, this is your thread. Care to take a stab at it?

  The Resurrection is the most documented event in the ancient world. It changed the world more than any other event. The entire world counts time from the birth of this man. Without the Resurrection, there is no reason why all (but one) of his disciples (as eyewitnesses, not just believers) chose to suffer a brutal death rather than deny Jesus. No one dies for a lie. There is no other explanation for the growth of the Christian church.

  I believe that even Caesar confirmed the Resurrection. Tomb robbers take valuables from tombs... not stinking rotten bodies, or bones. But Ceasar issued an unusual type of edit (The Nazareth Inscription) reserved for special problems to make it illegal to steal bodies from tombs shortly after the Resurrection. Wow!

  He affirmed the most important event in history. He just didn’t mean to do it - Article
  
  
  
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  Article to discuss or argue over: Buddha, Abraham, Jesus and Muhammed: Larger-than-life historic figures or largely legends?

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've posted a link to an article that contains important food for thought.

  as we search for information to free our minds and hearts of cult-like thinking which entails being able to critically think, we need to ponder research that is available to help us to make important decisions.

  we need to allow ourselves to consider other possibilities, something that jw’s are discouraged from doing.

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  Sea Breeze

  "I will find a way around your system so as I may use the New Testament to prove the resurrection of Christ."
  
  TBK, I don't recall this quote. Do you have a time stamp for it?
  
  Scholars, both skeptic and believer use the bible all the time, they just use it critically in scholarly circles. They usually don't outright reject it or believe it, but use it critically according to historical criteria and apparatus. The bottom line is that Dr. Habermas claims 90 -95% of all scholars (who publish in this area) believe 6 of the below points and about 75% believe the other 6 points. So these 12 points make up the minimum facts that most scholars (skeptic, atheist, agnostic and otherwise) believe about the Resurrection.
  
  

  1. Jesus died by Roman crucifixion.
  2. He was buried, most likely in a private tomb.
  3. Soon afterward, the disciples were discouraged, bereaved, and despondent, having lost hope.
  4. Jesus’ tomb was found empty very soon after his interment.
  5. The disciples had experiences that they believed were actual appearances of the risen Jesus.
  6. Due to these experiences, the disciples’ lives were thoroughly transformed, even being willing to die for this belief.
  7. The proclamation of the resurrection took place very early, at the beginning of church history.
  8. The disciples’ public testimony and preaching of the resurrection took place in the city of Jerusalem, where Jesus had been crucified and buried shortly before.
  9. The Gospel message centered on the death and resurrection of Jesus.
  10. Sunday was the primary day for gathering and worshipping.
  11. James, the brother of Jesus and former skeptic, was converted when, he believed, he saw the risen Jesus.
  12. Just a few years later, Saul of Tarsus (Paul) became a Christian believer due to an experience that he believed was an appearance of the risen Jesus.”
      
      It is very difficult to come up with alternative plausible explanations for these minimal facts. Take for instance just one: # 10
      
      What would it take for tens of thousands of orthodox Jews to stop making Saturday their Holy Day, and change it to Sunday? Keep in mind that they would be shunned by family and friends every bit as harshly as we have been at the behest of the WT.
      
      Orthodox Jews don't change, history has taught us that. Only they did - right in the heart of Jerusalem!
      
      A real resurrection is a plausible explanation for this fact that skeptic scholars agree on. The other 11 are hard to explain away as well. Got ahead, try.... its no so easy.
      
      As for the other people on Barbara's list..... well they are all dead. Why would I want to listen to or follow a dead guy? But a guy who is still alive after being put to death, well that's someone worth listening to. Not as easy to dismiss.